Vance And Hines Monster Ovals

[BLQ PRL]

As a fairly new owner of a 2009 Harley Touring bike (FLTR Road Glide) I appreciated the article on the Vance And Hines Monster Oval slip-on exhausts in the March edition. I have heard nothing but good things about the cans and the article really did help confirm that real-world HP and torque gains could be realized by installing the mufflers. Plus, I've heard them in person and I'm here to tell you they make a v-twin motorcycle sound just GREAT going down the road.

That being said my worry, and one that was not addressed at all in the article, is regarding the possibility of this mod increasing engine heat and therefore subjecting the motor to undue wear and tear and possible premature failure.

The Monster Ovals have pretty big baffles in them; over 2" in diameter, maybe 2-1/4" or so. Bigger baffles = louder = more free flowing = a leaner air/fuel mixture than the already lean stock condition from the MoCo = heat = potential motor problems. I think these pipes are too free flowing to not worry about how they affect the air /fuel mixture equation without further alterations to the EFI.

I believe the bike would need an add on controller, such as V&H's own FuelPak or a Power Commander V, or an HD SERT/SERG. However, I believe those mods can void your factory warranty and I am hearing that HD is arbitrarily beginning to note and void warranties altogether once a dealer makes a report to corporate about an altered machine.

I appreciate the combined knowledge of this reader-base and welcome any feedback anyone might have.

Curt
Post Falls, ID

[MrFirebutt]

Originally Posted by BLQ PRL

As a fairly new owner of a 2009 Harley Touring bike (FLTR Road Glide) I appreciated the article on the Vance And Hines Monster Oval slip-on exhausts in the March edition. I have heard nothing but good things about the cans and the article really did help confirm that real-world HP and torque gains could be realized by installing the mufflers. Plus, I've heard them in person and I'm here to tell you they make a v-twin motorcycle sound just GREAT going down the road.

That being said my worry, and one that was not addressed at all in the article, is regarding the possibility of this mod increasing engine heat and therefore subjecting the motor to undue wear and tear and possible premature failure.

The Monster Ovals have pretty big baffles in them; over 2" in diameter, maybe 2-1/4" or so. Bigger baffles = louder = more free flowing = a leaner air/fuel mixture than the already lean stock condition from the MoCo = heat = potential motor problems. I think these pipes are too free flowing to not worry about how they affect the air /fuel mixture equation without further alterations to the EFI.

I believe the bike would need an add on controller, such as V&H's own FuelPak or a Power Commander V, or an HD SERT/SERG. However, I believe those mods can void your factory warranty and I am hearing that HD is arbitrarily beginning to note and void warranties altogether once a dealer makes a report to corporate about an altered machine.

I appreciate the combined knowledge of this reader-base and welcome any feedback anyone might have.

Curt
Post Falls, ID

I hate to be brutally honest but if you wanted a bike with more horsepower and torque then you should have bought a bike with those features instead. I think you answered your own question about why it will void the factory warranty

[MrFirebutt]

Originally Posted by wheresWaldo

Yes the mods will void the warranty but I wouldn't worry about that. Not much chance you are going to have to use the warranty anyway.

That being said, the "slip ons" can be slipped off and the "add on" Power Commander can be unplugged IF you had a warranty issue before you took the bike in ....

Now as to Heat -

Actually you will be running cooler because when you re program the Power Commander you will go to a richer mixture thus cooling the temps DOWN. Greatly......

There is NO reason you would not want to do what you are thinking about ......



The guys that don't know should keep out of it
.

"richer mixture" Whats that going to do to his gas mileage

[BSAchop]

have your dealer get you the pipes since most dealers will stand by thier good customers in dealing with warranty issues.

installing the pipes will not have much efect on your efi settings. the close loop system only operates when the sensors tel it to, which i BELIEVE is mostly
under start up and low rpm. check on that. but 4 sure the bike will adjust for the small effect free flowing exhaust has on it stock. where you would run into the need for powerr commanders and race tuners and all that stuff, is when modifying the intake.
putting freeflow exhaust cant freeflow more than went in thru the AC.

of course modifying the intake is what gives your pipes the ultimate power increase, but its not neccessary just to run the pipes for fun.

[BLQ PRL]

Originally Posted by MrFirebutt

I hate to be brutally honest but if you wanted a bike with more horsepower and torque then you should have bought a bike with those features instead. I think you answered your own question about why it will void the factory warranty

This exhaust purchase, if it happens, would be primarily for looks and sound. I'd see the added HP and torque numbers as merely a happy by-product. I also have a go-fast bike (BMW K1200S) so I agree about what a bike's purpose is but I'd also challenge you to find a Harley rider (besides the real old guys) who doesn't want at least a little bit more from his motor. It sort of comes with the territory of owning a Harley. The motor's beg to be tweaked!

[BLQ PRL]

Originally Posted by BSAchop

have your dealer get you the pipes since most dealers will stand by thier good customers in dealing with warranty issues.

Good thought but my dealer wants MSRP ($779 or so) and I have found 'em on the net for $550!

Installing the pipes will not have much efect on your efi settings. the close loop system only operates when the sensors tel it to, which i BELIEVE is mostly
under start up and low rpm. check on that. but 4 sure the bike will adjust for the small effect free flowing exhaust has on it stock. where you would run into the need for powerr commanders and race tuners and all that stuff, is when modifying the intake.
putting freeflow exhaust cant freeflow more than went in thru the AC.

This makes sense to me but is actually not what V&H technical support told me in a phone conversation I made after I originally posted here. Their rep told me that the bike could possibly adjust under a very easy throttle hand and if kept to minimum rpm in most instances. That is definitely NOT how I ride! Especially out touring on the open road I will get this scoot up past highway speeds and let her rip for hours on end if the tax collectors are not present. Right from V&H's mouth these cans are free flowing enough to indeed add a pretty significant amount of O2 into the system that the sensors can't adjust for.

Of course modifying the intake is what gives your pipes the ultimate power increase, but its not neccessary just to run the pipes for fun.

Since V&H themselves has told me a tuner of some sort WOULD be necessary for proper operation and to maintain the engine temp in a safe range and since I am not interested in chasing the perfect tune (been down that road with a previous HD...endless dyno tunes, A/C mods, tuners, exhausts...$, $, $) I am leaning towards keeping the stock pipes on.

[BSAchop]

BLQ-
most dealers offered discounted parts when you bought the bike. yours didnt? normally its 10percent for a year or so. the difference in price is quite big from the internet, i agree. but sometimes its nice ti have some recourse if there is a problem. also, many dealers run specials during the year like 15 or 20% off. you may do well to wait for daytona wek speciual or eastr spring specials, whatever. if you can get 15% off, its worth the extra money to deal with a dealer to make sure you are not getting seconds and the like. thats just my opinion. its your check book.

i think v&H wants to sell u their fuell adjuster. keep that in mind. you really need to research the way the 02 sensors work for yourself. my dealer told me i can run less restrictive exhaust stock. i have run many sets of pipes on bikes i havent rejetted in the past. this is efi, but its does adjust at rpm to what your bike will run like for just an exhaust change. you may not get full effiecency for sure. but it will work. the bike only runs in closed loop at certain rpm. most of the time its an open system and i beleive they are mapped rich outside of the epa idle and low rmp measurements.

i am not sure how to explain. all i can say is i would run the pipes for a while if i needed to. i would eventually go to stage 1 intake and powercommander for my sense of wanting the total package for best performance, but you can run just the pipes.

waldo- you talk silly on this one.
who can fit their harley in their den to flash from their pc?
i agree you dont need i dyno.
i agree dealers tend to run up the bill, but so is vance and hines in this case. their fuel pak is not the best either. it just fools the harley part into thinking its richer. you still may need to remap the curves. power commander does it all. thats from what i understand.

harleys traditionally get better mileage after they are broken in. maybe 2500 miles before you see best mileage. its rediculous to think harley tunes its bikes lean for fuel milage and risks engine damage under warranty by doing so. its epa mandated. besides, its the map itself that determines the fuel mixture outside of the loop o2 sensors, and most of the time thats where the bike is tunning. the lean condition is during closed loop at low r's.

i work on my old bikes. i dont buy new bikes to work on, allthough i will do rudimentary things if i have the inclination to do so. normally if i have anywork i want done that may effect the warranty, harley is doing it! and they will do what i want and i will hold them to it. they already put SE fork oil in my "08 dyna for FREE after i complained about weepage. no big deal in of itself, but they did not run up the bill. you need to find a g ood dealer that understands the times dictate customer service. then support that dealer when its feasable by giving him some bizz now and then. certainly you got to watch out and play the game a bit, maybe even show the service department some respect. but come on, this grandstanding "i wont take my bike to a dealer" is stupid chest beating and liusy advice to a guy whom earnestly wants to enjoy the harley experieince.

[Monkeyshines]

Don't you have enough of your own Harley spam threads to muck around in?

[BLQ PRL]

Easy there fellas! I didn't mean to stir the pot and get anybody riled although I figured a post like this would divide opinions pretty fast.

Getting back to the specific topic...I really didn't get the opinion from the V&H tech that he was trying to sell me anything. As a matter of fact he mentioned I might want to look into the HD flash option but then changed his mind when I described my less than sedate normal riding style. I believe his logic was that the flash would mostly just richen up the motor at idle and low rpm only.

I don't believe there is any debate in the V-twin community that new Harley's are rolling off the showroom lean. Like someone said above I don't believe this has much if anything to do with fuel economy but rather is dictated by the ever tightening EPA regulations.

Unfortunately that lean condition equals heat and we all know heat is an enemy to any engine...at least for longevity and reliability.

I'm not just interested in getting my new machine past the two year manufacturer's warranty but plan on keeping this bike for many years/miles. I personally can't drop $20K on a new bike and not ride it 'till the wheels come off.

My position continues to be building through this discussion that just putting these slip-on's on w/o doing the A/C mod and a EFI tuner of some sort would be asking for trouble (maybe not immediately but down the road for sure.) I think my engine would run hotter and over the years I would eventually pay the price.

I wonder if anyone out there has mounted a set up and could run an infrared thermometer on the heads to get a before and after temp reading? That would pretty much answer the heat question at least.

[BLQ PRL]

Looks pretty convincing to me UJM.

Maybe I should buy a tuner (there is a brand new Power Commander...(V) I believe, right?) and just stick with my OEM exhausts?

Thanks for the food for thought no matter what I end up doing.