2 Stroke Gearbox Rebuild -- The Countershaft Doesn't Turn

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div><font size="2"><p>Are 2 stroke gearboxes basically all the same (vertically split)? Why doesn't my countershaft turn when in neutral on my SX 175? I spin the main shaft and the first set of gears, the middle set of gears, and the last pair of gears, spin freely, but not the countershaft. Is it supposed to do that? How can I check this thing?</p><p>The gears have been mixed over the years, and I suspect some of the gears -- from a different year that I swapped in -- might not be compatible with ones I already have in there .</p><p>I shouldn't have taken a donor engine apart that I had, which actually turned over (but was missing a top end and had bent studs that were rusted stuck) . . . Oh well, there's an Aermac swap meet in PA next weekend -- maybe I can find another engine there . . .</p><p>Nick</p></font></div><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-22-2007</span><span class="time_text">10:04 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

I'm not very familiar with Japanese transmissions, but in neutral, the countershaft shouldn't spin. Isn't that where the sprocket for the final drive is attached? The whole point of neutral is to disconnect that sprocket from the power.<br>The gearset pairs are always engaged with each other, and the ratios are selected by sliding each gearset back and forth to engage &quot;dogs&quot; that are protruding from the shafts. Usually, fourth gear is a direct ratio that's obtained by just locking the two shafts together somehow.<br>It sounds to me like you need to experiment with moving the pairs of gears back and forth while you're spinning the mainshaft so you can see how things work.<br>There are only so many ways to design a constant-mesh motorcycle transmission, so yours is probably pretty typical of all the Japanese two-stroke transmissions.<br>If you put the same number of parts in that you took out, and in the same order that you took them out, the transmission should work ok.<br>One of the great advantages of the horizontally split engine cases on Japanese bikes is that you can assemble the gearsets and shafts on the bottom case half, and verify that everything hooks up the way it should.<br>On the British transmissions that I've worked with in the past, you had to just shove everything into the holes in the back of the transmission case, and hope it all worked ok after you buttoned it up.

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>What you're saying makes sense -- at least in theory. That counter DOES have the drive sprcket on it. Although I just discovered one of the gears I had just put in was wrong, and must have been from a different cycle; I guess the part guy messed it up. </div><div> </div><div>But why won't the gears engange? It would make sense if they engaged, and the shafts are locked up. But it doesn't make sense that they don't slide on the shaft all the way and engage and then spin freely. Also one of the washers is a little bent (the one going up against the bearing) . . . does that matter?</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-15-2007</span><span class="time_text">01:11 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-22-2007</span><span class="time_text">10:05 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-22-2007</span><span class="time_text">10:10 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

Right, I just wrote up a long description of how I thought your transmission should work, based on what I know about the British transmissions that I'm most familiar with.<br>Couldn't have been more wrong.<br>I dug out an old Kawasaki Shop manual, and it's clear that although the theory of operation is the same, the details of how it's done are a lot different.<br>The Kawasaki Transmission has dogs in the sides of the gears, and various combinations of the engagement of these dogs between different gears determines what gear ratio you're in at any given time.<br>Not nearly as straighforward and easy to figure out as the british transmissions.<br>The gears may not necessarily be assembled on the shafts in order 1-2-3-4. The Kawaski 500 triple had 1st gear as the first pair, then 5th gear, then 3rd gear, then 4th gear and last was 2nd gear. Your transmission probably has them layed out in yet another way. To identfy which pair is which, look at the relative sizes of all the gears. First gear will be the pair of gears that has the smallest one on the mainshaft, and the largest one on the countershaft. Each subsequent gear ratio will have a next larger gear on the mainshaft and the next smaller gear on the countershaft. Top gear should have both gears the same size.<br>Based on what I'm seeing in this Kawasaki manual, you may not be able to get that thing assmebled right until you get a good shop manual for your bike. The ways the different gears slide back and forth on the shafts, and the dogs in the sides of the gears engage is not real straightforward. This much I do know; each gear should only be able to move a very short distance, and you should never have more than one gear or mated pair of gears move at one time.<br>All I can say is to assemble the thing in the bottom crankcase half the way you think it should go, and then try rotating the mainshaft while you move the sliding gears back and forth to see what happens. The gears that you need try to move, will be the ones with grooves in them that line up with each shifter fork.<br>As for that washer, if it's a spacer or thrust washer, it has to be a precise thickness, and you should try to straighten it out. It could be that it's a spring washer, in which case it would be made out of very thin stiff material.<p>Message Edited by carlo on <span class="date_text">01-15-2007</span><span class="time_text">08:33 PM</span></p>

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div>I'm stumped. It seems as though the gear drum and shifter forks are assembled correctly because the gears slide along the shafts to engage other gears; but the countershaft doesn't really spin. </div><div> </div><div>Starting from neutral -- I spin the main shaft and with pliers move the shift drum and a gear slides which just locks up the shafts. I then sort of shimmy the shafts back-and-forth since they're locked up and again move the shift drum; and sure enough a gear moves along the shaft and engages another gear. I am able to do this throughout all gears, and back down again. But again, I am shimmying the shafts since the aren't spinning freely when a gear is engaged.</div><div> </div><div>I spotted a couple of wrong gears when I ordered a bunch of NOS ones while back and also that I took apart a donor engine -- but could it be one of the other 2 NOS gears is wrong as well? If not both? I checked the countershaft by itself and it spins freely in its bearing. I don't know what else it could be . . . but the thing is the gears looked right . . . the others were obviously wrong. thx</div><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-22-2007</span><span class="time_text">12:15 AM</span></p>

[Fid_Hawser]

Take a good long look at all the gears. It sounds like you have more than one pair engaged. Could be a dog is on the shaft the wrong way or a fork is on its shaft the wrong way. Whatever, either two dogs are engaging or one is failing to disengage as you rotate the drum. I guess another possibility (maybe even more likely?) is that you have your spacers out of order and the tip of a dog is still contacting its gear instead of clearing it.<br><br>Look and wiggle, look and wiggle.

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Thx to all for the replies.</div><div> </div><div>How are the gears supposed to line up with one another, in Neutral, when you hammer them into the bearings? I always put them in lined up with its mating gear and evenly spaced from the gears next to it. But I think this might be wrong. I think that a couple of gears are supposed to go in already engaged . . . like these pics indicate: <a href="http://www.dansmc.com/gearbox.htm" target="_blank">http://www.dansmc.com/gearbox.htm</a>.</div><div> </div><div>The horizontally split one looks that way and so does the pic on top. But who knows if that's Neutral . . .</div><div> </div><div>My service book just says the ol' &quot;put back the way it was disassembled&quot; bull.</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-22-2007</span><span class="time_text">10:00 PM</span></p>

[Fid_Hawser]

Try studying the grooves in the shift drum. You should be able to figure which position is 1st, N, 2nd, etc. by the rotation angle of the drum. You should also be able to identify the gearsets by eyeballing their relative sizes. Gear engagement gets a little tricky if the power is transmitted from mainshaft to countershaft through one set and back through another, as sometimes happens, but you should be able to figure where the forks line up in each drum position and from that, which dog or gear is moved which way.<br><br>It can be a real hair-puller, but I think that's the best way to really &quot;get&quot; the way they work.<br><br>Oh, and while you're at it, examine each gear carefully for cracks. The cracks spread, under a heavy load, causing them to jamb (but that shouldn't be what your current problem is).<br><br><br>By the way, where are you? Maybe you're near one of us geezers (although that doesn't gaurantee knowledge, hehehehe).<p>Message Edited by Fid_Hawser on <span class="date_text">01-22-2007</span><span class="time_text">07:38 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

I don't know if you've got this yet or not...<br><br>Every gear on the mainshaft should be meshing at all times with a corresponding gear on the countershaft.<br>Some of the gears on the mainshaft, and/or some of the gears on the countershaft will be able to slide back and forth, but they should still have at least part of their teeth engaging their mate on the other shaft all the time.<br>Those sliding gears determine which of the other gears are locked onto the shafts in order to transmit the power from the mainshaft to the countershaft.<br>If the countershaft is able to turn freely, independently of the mainshaft, you're in neutral, or a &quot;false neutral&quot;<br>If you have two sets of gears selected simultaneously, as Fid suggested, you'd have both shafts locked together, and neither one of them would be able to turn.<br><br>Really, the only way any of us could be of any help would be if we were sitting there with you playing with the gears.<br>Your best bet is to find an original factory shop manual for your bike, and carefully study the section on gearbox operation.<br>Those manuals are available, I've had no trouble finding them whenever I needed one. Check with the Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club (www.vjmc.org) and see if anyone there can help you. Check on amazon.com or ebay, there are sources for these old manuals.<br>The only way you're going to figure this out without any of us coming over to your garage to help is if you can gain an understanding of how your transmission works. They're all a little different, but they all work in fundamentally the same way.<br>If I have time later, maybe I'll scan my Kawasaki manual's description of gearbox operation. I've also got a couple of Honda manuals that might help. They're quite good at describing the operation of these things.

[Fid_Hawser]

I'm sure it was just me, but all the diagrams, pictures and explanations didn't help me. I absolutely could not get the hang of gearboxes until I took one apart, studied the relationship between the drum and forks and re-assembled it 3 or maybe 4 times, then something in my brain clicked and I understood it. It took one whole afternoon in May of 1974, I think. Before that day, I'd tried on a few, but always had to get help. It's never been easy, as the parts are so interdependent, but I can do it without cussing, no small feat for me. I think cussing was like grease for Dad and I learned a lot from him - hehehe.<br><br>Oh, yeah! Be sure you hold your tongue right! ;)<br><br>We're taking about an Italian unit, correct? Shouldn't be any big surprises, though. Just say &quot;patootie&quot; a lot.

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>What I mean by engaged isn't that the teeth are meshed with its mate on the other shaft -- but that -- a couple of the gears go in the bearings, in Neutral, with geardogs already engaged with another gear.</div><div> </div><div>If you look at the gears on the Dan MC page -- it looks like the 2 pairs on the left side are right next to each other; gear dogs engaged and all. But my question is -- is that Neutral, or like 5th gear? Although I think you already answered by saying it's cycle-specific and I'd have to figure it out . . .</div><div> </div><div>By the way, I have the factory service manual and incidentally the 2-smoker is an Aermacchi Harley not Japanzee, but from what I've seen it's more like a Japanese 2 smoker than anything else. I live in NYC also.</div><div> </div><div>I should just bring it in. This should take my mechanic 1/2 an hour -- or $40 if you will -- and well worth it. I already ended up buying a spare ebay, lower end; that actually worked and stupidly destroyed it just to get the gears out; and wasted $50 in the process . . . although at least I have the right gears in, and I know my crank is good as well and who knows what wouldv'e happened with the other thing -- that had more side play than Luigi.</div><div> </div><div>I should check my manual again from my other cycle -- that might help a little . . .</div><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-23-2007</span><span class="time_text">11:45 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-23-2007</span><span class="time_text">11:45 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-23-2007</span><span class="time_text">11:46 AM</span></p>

[Fid_Hawser]

<blockquote><hr>RidingFool wrote:<br><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>What I mean by engaged . . . in Neutral, with geardogs already engaged with another gear.</div><div></div><div>If you look at the gears on the Dan MC page -- it looks like the 2 pairs on the left side are right next to each other; gear dogs engaged and all. But my question is -- is that Neutral, or like 5th gear?<div><hr></div></div></blockquote><br><br>Plain and simple, the shafts don't turn independently, it's not in Neutral. Could you have one or more gears turned the wrong way (dogs on wrong side)?<br><br>I wish I knew what the heck you mean by hammering the gears into the bearings, or however you put it. There should be no force required, except possibly a press-fit of the shafts into bearings. And the dogs should only contact the slots in the appropriate gear at the appropriate time.

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div>I mean the shafts get hammered in the bearings. And I gently have hammer them in.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#3333ff">And the dogs should only contact the slots in the appropriate gear at the appropriate time.</font></div><div> </div><div>That's exactly what I want to know is what gears are supposed to be where -- and which ones are supposed to be mated (gear dogs in another gear) when the thing is in Neutral -- if any.</div><div> </div><div>See in the image below how the 2 pairs of gears on the left are mated together (via gear dogs presumably), is this Neutral? And are the gears supposed to be arranged this way when I close this case on my machine? </div><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-23-2007</span><span class="time_text">04:37 PM</span></p>

[Fid_Hawser]

One would assume that picture was taken with the trans in neutral, but there's no way to know unless you're intimately familiar with that particular model bike. Again, you have to look at the shift drum.<br><br>Study the detents in the disk on the end of the drum. Study the roller that rides on that disk and holds tension on each detent in its turn. Learn what the rotation of the drum is when in neutral (check the case by the shift lever for an indication of whether N is the 1st or 2nd detent). Then follow the grooves to figure where the forks would fall from there. That will ultimately tell you where the sliding gears/dogs should be.<br><br>I know it's tedious, but without definite references, that's what it takes. That's why it's recommended to wire gears together or number them with a magic marker, or photograph each step on disassembly. Also be aware that the shift drum pattern determines the order of the gearsets on the shafts - it's probably not 1&gt;2&gt;3&gt;4&gt;5 across the transmission. The unit in that photo appears to be arranged 1&gt;5&gt;3&gt;4&gt;6&gt;2, but I could be wrong.

[carlo]

To be in neutral, none of the dogs on any gears should be engaged with any other gears.<br>When each gear is selected, there should only be one set of gear dogs engaging other dogs at a time.<br><br>Right. I've scanned the illustrations from my Kawasaki H1 manual.<br>Look closely at the relative positions of the gears. The top shaft and set of gears is the mainshaft, labelled &quot;drive shaft&quot;, and the bottom shaft and gears is the countershaft, labelled &quot;output&quot;.<br>The first picture shows the transmission in neutral. Note that none of the dogs are in engagement.<br>http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/tech/275/3/h1-neutral.jpg<br>The second picture shows the transmission in first gear. Note that 5th gear on the countershaft sprocket is shifted over to the left to engage in the dogs in first gear on the countershaft. This locks the two shafts together through the first gear pair.<br>http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/tech/275/4/h1-1st-gear.jpg<br>The third picture shows second gear. Note how fourth gear on the countershaft is shifted over to the right to engage the dogs in the second gear on the countershaft. In the case of first and second gears, you can't actually see the dogs because they're concealed in the undercut sides of the two gears.<br>http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/tech/275/2/h1-2nd-gear.jpg<br>The fourth picture shows third gear engaged. Note how fourth gear on the countershaft is being used a second time, by shifting all the way to the left to engage the dogs in third gear on the countershaft.<br>http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/tech/275/1/h1-3rd-gear.jpg<br>That's all the pictures I can upload in one post, so stay tuned for fourth and fifth gears.<p>Message Edited by carlo on <span class="date_text">01-25-2007</span><span class="time_text">09:08 AM</span></p>

[carlo]

Ok, here's 4th gear. Note that this time, they use 3rd gear on the mainshaft to do the engagement, but shifting it to the right to lock into the dogs on the mainshaft 4th gear. Your transmission probably has only two shifter forks (assuming it's a 4 speed), and there may only be two gears that slide back and forth to lock into and select each of the four gearsets.<br>http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/tech/276/1/h1-4th-gear.jpg<br>Last picture. 5th gear. This time the mainshaft 3rd gear is serving double duty by shifting over to the left, and locking into the mainshaft 5th gear.<br>http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/tech/276/2/h1-5th-gear.jpg<br>The splines on the shafts are undoubtedly arranged so that only the gears that are selected by the sliding gears are going to engage with the shafts. The rest of the gears will spin freely on the shafts.<br><br>I hope this helps you understand what's going on. As long as all the gears appear to engage their mates properly, it's a matter of figuring out where each pair has to be positioned on the shafts. If you have a manual, that should be pretty simple.<p>Message Edited by carlo on <span class="date_text">01-24-2007</span><span class="time_text">07:52 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

BTW, I think it's safe to assume that while you're spinning either shaft, all the gears will rotate all the time.<br>The significant thing is that only one pair of gears will be locked to both shafts at a time via whatever set of dogs is engaged at any given time.<br>Even in neutral, you should see all the gears rotating when the shafts are spun, but you'll notice that when you spin one shaft, the other one doesn't spin, and vice-versa.<br>This is because of the arrangement of the splines on the shafts. Some of the gears are only connected to the countershaft by splines, and other gears are only connected to the mainshaft. The sliding gears will all be connected to whatever shaft they're on by splines.<br>The thing you need to consider in relation to your own transmission is that the sliding gears will always be splined to whatever shaft they're on. The gears that they engage with the dogs will always spin freely on that shaft (most likely, on further consideration, because those gears lack splines to engage the splines in the shaft). The mates to those gears on the other shaft will be splined to their shaft. This is the basis of how these gearboxes work. The sliding gears lock into an unsplined gear, which then locks that gear to the shaft, and hence to the other shaft through it's mate. The mate to the sliding gear is unsplined, and spins freely on it's shaft.<br>Sorry, his is starting to sound more complicated than it really is. To be honest, just trying to explain it is an education in itself.<br><br>If, as you say, you've got geardogs in engagement, but the transmission is behaving as if it's in neutral, it means that you've probably got your gears on the shafts in the wrong order.<p>Message Edited by carlo on <span class="date_text">01-24-2007</span><span class="time_text">09:43 PM</span></p>

[Fid_Hawser]

Thanks, Carl. I was wondering when somebody would pitch in with something comprehensible.

[carlo]

I'm thinking about re-writing my description with an emphasis on which gears are splined to the shafts and which aren't. That will make the story much more clear if the little arrows in the pictures don't get the message across. Some folks just aren't visually oriented enough to really &quot;get&quot; what's going on under those gears.<br><br>And I should again emphasize that the physical locations of each gearset on the shafts (ie: 1st, 2nd 3rd...) will not necessarily be the same on a different transmission. It's probably possible with most transmissions to assemble those out of order, in which case the gear selection process will make no sense at all, and you'll find combinations that either lock up both shafts, or that allow one or the other to turn freely when it shouldn't.

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Thx for the posts. I've been looking at some photos I took, when I first split the cases, and I don't think any of the gears are in the wrong order.</div><div> </div><div>My next guess as to what is wrong is that I now have gears mixed-and-matched from several sources (including NOS ones that I ordered and a spare engine), and I don't think they are compatible. It actually says so in the manual that '74 gears won't work with '75 gears.</div><div> </div><div>Incidentally when in Neutral not all of my gears spin -- only 3 of 5 pairs of them do. And the countershaft never spins alone -- only the main shaft is capable of spinning.</div><div> </div><div>So I guess the thing to do is remove the gears that aren't spinning in Neutral and replace them with ones from my '74 spare engine; therefore I'll have gears from only one source. The only problem I have is that I sort tried that already, and the 2nd gear countershaft (from the spare) -- doesn't seem to want to go on the shaft (My original).</div><div> </div><div>Incidentally, I took it to a shop today -- they want 300 bucks (or 3 hours labor)</div><p><span class="time_text">I spotted a Haynes manual online for an SX 125. I know the SX 175 (My machine if you remember) is identical to the SX 250, but do you think that 125 manual would be helpful, or do you think I'm just throwing good-money-after-bad at this point? (It's like $23 + shipping). I know the factory manual I have isn't very helpful . . .</span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-27-2007</span><span class="time_text">09:37 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

If you've got any pairs of gears that don't spin with the rest of them, it sounds like they're both unsplined, you have to have one that's splined and one that's not in each pair. It seems odd that they'd change the layout of the gears from one year to the next, but you should look at the center of each gear and deterimine which ones have splines and which ones don't.<br>Unless my thinking has a serious flaw in it somewhere, there is no way that a constant mesh gearbox can work unless each pair of gears has one splined gear and one unsplined gear.<br>If you find that you've got two unsplined gears meshing together, it means that either you've mixed them up, or the factory changed the transmission layout around between 74 and 75.<br>And like I said, the sliding gears that have the grooves in them to engage the shifter forks have to be splined. I'm certain of that. There's just no way that type of transmission will work unless that's the case.<br>I think someone else pointed out that you can get away with pretty serious looking pitting (or was that on the transmission page you linked to?) in the faces of the gear teeth. I've found that to be the case myself. They normally won't self destruct, they just whine when they're engaged and transmitting the power.<br>Anyhow, you should be able to use the old gears unless there's metal visibly flaking off them, or unless they've been so badly overheated that they've turned blue. I've used pitted gears myself. It seems like every Royal Enfield gearbox I've ever taken apart has pitting on 3rd gear. They're all noisy. Don't know why just that one.<br>Hey, take a look at my Transmission Analysis thread and let me know if my attempt at explaining how it works made any sense.

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>What do you mean by Splined? And if it says that '74 gears and '75s are incompatible in the book . . . from what I've seen, I believe them.</div><div> </div><div>I think I assembled the shifter mechanism correctly. The forks move when I turn the shift drum and gears slide (with ones with dogs in them) along the shaft. It's pretty hard to mess that up . . . the forks slide in the groves along the shifter drum and lock into the gears -- so I get the gearbox theory more-or-less, and how different combos enable different gears. But like I said, the gears seem to slide along the shafts and engage others, it's just that the shafts are locked up.</div><div> </div><div>Pitting? Shoot, I had to swap out 4 of the gears from the orginal because of broken teeth and one was just in pieces at the bottom of the case.</div><div> </div><div>My main dilemna is that I can't get the bearing off the countershaft from the spare engine, so that I can just use the shafts from the spare engine in my engine. And what's more, is that I can't even just take the gears off the spare engine's countershaft, and use them on mine either, because 2nd gear (countershaft) from the spare doesn' fit on my shaft for some reason. I can't believe I took that spare engine apart in part because I didn't want mismatched numbers. :mad: </div><div> </div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-27-2007</span><span class="time_text">11:45 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-27-2007</span><span class="time_text">11:47 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

In the center hole of the gear, there will be either teeth (splines) or just a perfect round hole (unsplined)<br><br>Every pair of mated gears (one on each shaft) should have one gear with a hole with splines in it, and one without. That's essential if a constant mesh transmission is going to function at all.<br><br>At this point, if the bearing is holding you up, you might as well replace it. If you get a replacement bearing, you can feel free to do whatever you want to get the old one off.<br>Take the bearing and shaft to a bearing supply house. Look in your local yellow pages for one. They'll be able to provide you with an identical replacement for probably less than $20, and possibly less than $10. They may also be able to pull the old one off for you and press the replacement on when you're ready.<p>Message Edited by carlo on <span class="date_text">01-27-2007</span><span class="time_text">08:58 PM</span></p>

[RidingFool]

<div></div><div></div><div>OK Cool. I took everything apart again and compared what I had with parts from the donor engine (which I should've done long ago). And 3 of 4 of the NOS gears that I've been trying to use, look like they're for a different bike. The gears aren't even close. The teeth don't have the same count, and are a different size too. And yes, to answer your question: I have splined gears lined up with unsplined mate gears.</div><div> </div><div>Actually by leaving the shaft with the stuck bearing in the back of my truck last night in the freezing cold; I was able to bring it into my apt.; hold the shaft over the stove for a couple of minutes; and then hammer it off with a cheap IKEA hammer of all things (I have my good tools at my parents' garage). It took like 5 min. I couldn't believe it.</div><div> </div><div>So now with the bearing off I should be able to just use spare engine shafts/gears in my case. thx dude!</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by RidingFool on <span class="date_text">01-28-2007</span><span class="time_text">01:17 PM</span></p>

[carlo]

Congratulations! Glad you managed to get that thing apart. Good luck with the rest of your project.<br><br><br>btw, transmission gears can be strange things. Sometimes the tooth count and shape of the teeth don't seem to make any sense, yet they work together anyway. The important thing is whether they mesh together on the shafts, in the transmission case without being seriously loose, or binding together. Years ago, I was experimenting with a close-ratio set of gears for my Royal Enfield Interceptor, and a couple of the pairs just didn't seem like they should work together. An old English guy who's been wrenching on British motorcycles since the 1950's told me to try them anyway.<br>They've been working fine in there since 1984. And yes, they're close ratio. I have to slip the clutch to get moving in first gear, then there's about a 500 rpm change between each of the other gears.<br><br>Oh yeh, thanks for giving me a good reason to sit down and figure these things out myself. Before we started this conversation, I only had a partial understanding about what went on in there.