Two-up and the Vision Street/Vision Street Tour

[Raventogo]

<div>Speaking for passengers, or what seems to be the 'silent biker', the above bike offers you a unique opportunity to bring passenger/female rider views for us gals.For instance, nice new G.W. 1800 beautiful bike for touring.But a lot of buffeting around the noggin for me at certain speeds, tho' my seat didn't suffer at all:) FRJ1300 beautiful bike but more sporty seat than touring for passenger: even the after-market didn't help. I've ridden pillion on an ST1100, Kawasaki X12, Bandit, V65 Sabre etc, so I have a real interest in analysis from the passenger perspective.We ride long distances at times - often well over 10 hours a day so comfort for me becomes critical:). Also, as part of the generation buying large tourers as well as purchasing our own rides, and being part of the decision as to what we buy, let's have some female test driver/passenger input too. And gentlemen, no condescending either. I'm about to buy my first bike and join the growing number of ladies of all ages taking to the road on some good rubber!</div>

[Fid_Hawser]

Yeah! There are some highly qualified women rider/writers out there; CW could do a lot worse than hiring one or two.<br><br>I highly recommend the freebie magazine out of the Northwest, Friction Zone - check your local cycle shops.

[CW1Edwards]

<div>We have had one or two women editors in the recent past--Brenda Buttner (now with Fox News Financial) and Wendy Black (now doing PR for Suzuki). When a position opens up, everyone is conssidered; it's just that 98% of applicants are male.</div><div> </div><div>DE</div>

[Raventogo]

<div>Did both these women ride? If so, did they also comment on pillion problems or just concentrate on riding? I did copy editing, but it didn't make me a tech guru:) TXS :)</div>

[hacksaw]

<div>wendy black? isnt that the gal that made a big deal out of riding a sport bike to sturgis?</div><div> </div><div>the other lady i dont recall, fox news financial likely explains that.</div>

[CW1Edwards]

<div>Raven, we don't hire female editors to ride pillion. It's insulting that you'd even suggest that. </div><div> </div><div>Brenda was a Rhodes Scholar who discovered motorcycles after her university days (VFR, ST1100) and decided she had to try working at a motorcycle magazine. It was through her efforts alone that Hunter S. Thompson's &quot;Song of the Sausage Creature&quot; appeared in Cycle World--only the most talked-about moto-mag article ever.</div><div> </div><div>DE</div>

[Honda919Rider]

<div></div><div>Remember, your a motorcyclist, no better, no worse than any other motorcyclist.</div><div> </div><div>Welcome, ride safe.</div>

[UncleErnie]

<div>Without being insulting, there are a lot of women who love to ride- as a passenger. From feedback that I've recieved, it's a perspective in touring bike reviews that is sorely lacking.</div>

[Raventogo]

<div>Dear CW1Edwards: - must apologise for apparently writing an insulting comment. If you couId find the time, I would be very interested in reading the article you mention. However, I didn't realise asking a simple question would engender such a response! As your magazine covers tourers as well as regular bikes, I don't believe my question was insulting. The manufacture of the new behemoth's of the cycling world must entail prior research into passenger configuration as well as rider. I somehow doubt a Rhodes Scholar would perceive my comments so negatively: they are awarded this designation for acute thinking and cosmpolitan thought.</div>

[Raventogo]

<div>Thanks Uncle Ernie! There is nothing insulting about riding as a pillion passenger. If (mainly women I know) didn't enjoy the riding, corporations wouldn't be spending tons of money trying to figure out the next snazziest, most comfortable, gorgeous looking tourer ever! Have a great day! </div>

[carlo]

Raven, I don't think Mr. Edwards was really insulted.<br>Unfortunately, it's impossible to read body language, tone of voice or facial expressions, in these little scraps of text that we send to each other.<br>Smileys (emoticons) are supposed to resolve that shortcoming, but most of us don't bother using the ones on this forum habitually.<br><br>So welcome to the CW forums.<br><br>http://www.gigabikes.com/forums/html/emoticons/spudnikwaving.gif<br>(sometimes, it's necessary to import a smiley to get the message across here)

[Fid_Hawser]

I think the point of accidental contention between Raven and David, may be the word &quot;editor.&quot;<br><br>It seems that today's motorcycle magazines cannot allow anyone to write for them without making that person an Editor. I suspect that neither Ms. Raven, not any other CW reader gives a whit about that over-applied title. All we (perhaps even a minority) who care about pillion comfort want is more attention given to passenger impressions. Please, solicit the opinion of more &quot;Contributors.&quot; I'll bet CW can get many qualified contributors for the mere inclusion of a name. I'll bet they'd even sign waivers. Let the Editors edit, but please, include a passenger comment, even at the expense of yet another referense to how high the bikes (most likely absurd) top speed is.

[Raventogo]

<div>Carlo thanks for that - it may have well been a 'tongue-in-cheek' response:D Anyway I've found 'The Sausage' article and am about to have a good read. It's amazing where how one thing can lead to another - now I know a lot more about the author too;)</div>

[Raventogo]

<div>P.S. to Mr. Edwards: I used &quot;also&quot; in my comment, thus acknowledging these 'editors' had rider experience (or assumed they had) Hate that word assumed - 'makes and ass of u and me'.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks for the support for a Newbie! It's a bit like walking into an exclusive men's club!</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Fid_Hawser]

<blockquote><hr>Raventogo wrote:<br><div>Thanks for the support for a Newbie! It's a bit like walking into an exclusive men's club!</div><br><hr></blockquote><br>Our (figurative) doors are open to all, just don't expect much <i>political correctness</i> here (thank God).<br><br>Come to think of it, most of our correctness is subject to (often) heated (often re-heated, too) debate.

[CW1Edwards]

<div>Rewinding a bit: Any woman who's made it to an editor's position at the world's largest motorcycle magazine (no, Fid, they aren't given out like CrackerJack prizes) has done so on her writing <em>and</em> riding skills. To then ask one to sit on the back seat (when I wouldn't think of asking a male editor to do the same) would indeed be seen as insulting/demeaning.</div><div> </div><div>However, we do pay attention to the back-seat accommodations, including last year's luxo-tourer comparison in which author Paul Dean's (brave) girlfriend and longtime co-rider, Ro, participated. Art Director Elaine Anderson (equally courageous) has done the same on sportbike shootouts, and Megan Cernicky (Medal of Honor material) has co-dragged knee and co-wheelied with hubby Mark in several comparison tests.</div><div> </div><div>DE</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Bogomil]

<div>Niceley said, DE. That question would never get asked if you were introducing a new editor named Roger. </div><div> </div><div>LA Times motorcycle reviewer is female. </div><div> </div><div>By the way, how is &quot;pillion&quot; pronounced? And when did we stop calling them passengers?</div>

[CW1Edwards]

<div>Rhymes with Jillian, a Brit affectation I believe.</div><div> </div><div>DE</div>

[Fid_Hawser]

<br><blockquote><hr>CW1Edwards wrote:<br><div>Fid, they (editor's positions) aren't given out like CrackerJack prizes</div><br><hr></blockquote><br><br>I didn't mean to imply that they were, and I respect the credentials of your entire staff. Looking at the masthead, though, it seems you have more &quot;Chiefs&quot; than (dare I say?) &quot;Indians,&quot; so to speak. But that's not the point. I just think that it would be nice if a passenger comment were included <i>more often</i>. Personally, I wouldn't care if it were male or female and I don't see why there should be a stigma attached to a male testing the second seat. I wouldn't think there'd be much of a problem getting volunteers, though. I'd bet there are a few ladies on staff who would hop on a bike for a lunch-break ride up PCH or the 55 and back and comment on the seat, at least.

[CW1Edwards]

<div>Fid, not sure about your &quot;tribal&quot; commentary, but it's been my experience that good riders make terrible back-seaters--we want the handlebars in our hands, not someone elses. Be that as it may, if you re-read most of the major comparison tests where rear-seat comfort is a concern, you'll see that we've done sidebars on the subject. And have plans to do more in the future.</div><div> </div><div>DE</div>

[Raventogo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Not an affectation Mr. Edwards:( - pillion, in today's world, is only used to describe the rear seat, back seat, passenger seat, of a motorcycle: perhaps could be used in a lexicon for motorcycle terminology;)</div><div> </div><div>Main Entry: <b>1pil·lion</b> <a target="_blank"><img border="0" width="16" height="11" src="http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif"></a><br>Pronunciation: 'pil-y&amp;n<br>Function: <i>noun</i><br>Etymology: Scottish Gaelic or Irish; Scottish Gaelic <i>pillean,</i> diminutive of <i>peall</i> covering, couch; Irish <i>pillÃÂ*n,</i> diminutive of <i>peall</i> covering, couch<br><b>1 a</b> <b>:</b> a light saddle for women consisting chiefly of a cushion <b>b</b> <b>:</b> a pad or cushion put on behind a man's saddle chiefly for a woman to ride on<br><b>2</b> <i>chiefly British</i> <b>:</b> a motorcycle or bicycle saddle for a passenger Main Entry: <b>1pil·lion</b> <a target="_blank"><img border="0" width="16" height="11" src="http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif"></a><br>Pronunciation: 'pil-y&amp;n<br>Function: <i>noun</i><br>Etymology: Scottish Gaelic or Irish; Scottish Gaelic <i>pillean,</i> diminutive of <i>peall</i> covering, couch; Irish <i>pillÃÂ*n,</i> diminutive of <i>peall</i> covering, couch</div><div><br>Message Edited by Raventogo on <span class="date_text">02-17-2007</span><span class="time_text">02:34 PM</span></div><p>Message Edited by Raventogo on <span class="date_text">02-17-2007</span><span class="time_text">02:36 PM</span></p>